What is your idea of democracy in Nigeria?
The road map in Nigeria is the Constitution and Section 14 of the
Constitution says, “Sovereignty belongs to the people of Nigeria.” And
from the Constitution, government derives all its power and authority,
which means that the Constitution, as I have always said, is a
documentation of delegated power.
During military rule, there was no politics. We have chosen democracy
as our highway. Therefore, we must obey the rules of democracy.
So, once we say we have chosen democracy, then there must be election
because all the people cannot go to parliament and all the people
cannot take decisions. Therefore, in our way of doing it, we structured
Nigeria into three: the national level, the state level and the local
government level which is why we say we have three tiers. In these three
tiers, elections must be conducted to the National Assembly where you
have the Senate and House of Representatives, to the state assemblies,
to all the executive offices including the 36 governors and, of course,
the local government chairmen. And section seven of the Constitution is
clear that all local government officers must be elected.
But in many states instead of elected local government chairmen
we have administrative secretaries or caretaker chairmen who are
appointed?
That is indiscipline. There is no provision for administrative
secretaries or caretaker committee chairmen for local government
administration. So, you can now see that because we are practising
democracy, we have political associations that are registered to canvass
for votes. Having been registered to canvass for votes and you will now
be called political parties then you must play politics.
Then you must have a manifesto where you make promises, and the
Constitution itself in Chapter Two gives you how to package your
manifesto. You must state what you want to do for Nigerians since
sovereignty lies with them and, therefore, you will have to make the
promise of what you will do for them if you are in government as a
political party. What will you do for them politically, educationally,
economically, culturally, environmentally, and in the area of foreign
policy? There is a guideline in the Constitution. As a political
association you will say what you want to do, and that is what you
package as your own manifesto.
Are you satisfied with the way the new opposition Peoples Democratic Party, PDP is challenging the new government?
It is all politics. You don’t expect Olisa Metuh to be singing the
praises of APC. That is not the objective of opposition. What Metuh
should be doing as PDP publicity secretary is to criticise APC
government.
And what APC was doing as the opposition party is precisely what PDP is
now doing. Just like what many of your colleagues do as spokespersons
for governors. Let us take Reuben Abati as spokesperson for former
President Goodluck Jonathan. Some people were criticising Reuben saying,
“Look at what he was writing in Guardian and look at what he is doing
now in government.” But Reuben Abati had no obligation to what he was
doing in The Guardian when he was with Jonathan. When he was with
Jonathan, he was his spokesman, image maker and his duty was to defend
Jonathan. He would not be objective if he criticised Jonathan.
Jonathan did not appoint Abati to come and criticise him, just like
General Ibrahim Babangida did not appoint me as Minister of Information
to criticise his government.
Many of my colleagues raised issues, but I said, “Oh, I am not the
spokesman of the NUJ. I am the spokesman for the government of IBB, and I
know what I am doing.” I was spokesman for the government, and Duro
Onobule was the spokesman for the President. Until we know all these, we
will be thinking that some people have sold out.
This question arose from the way the PDP minority leader mocked
the presentation of the Medium Term Expenditure Framework causing fear
that they could also have derailed the Supplementary Appropriation
Bill?
The fact is that PDP could not have struck out that supplementary bill.
Only majority can strike it out. PDP may have tried but at the end of
the day there was voting. Although they are in the minority, the PDP had
their say but the majority that is APC had their way.
But during the ministerial screening of Amaechi they had their say and still walked out?
That is the opposition for you. If you walk out, the people sitting will
still pass the bill. You can walk out as many times as you like, as
long as you form a quorum you pass the bill. There are different
definitions of quorum. There is the time the quorum will be one-third of
the people present, but the major quorum is one-third of the population
of the House. So, if it is 360 in the house, one-third will be 120. As
far as the house is up to 120, they have formed a quorum, and they can
do business.
Given that Gen. Buhari as head of state appointed you as General
Manager of Daily Times what was your experience working under him?
Many people don’t know General Muhammadu Buhari. At the time Tunde
Idiagbon was the second-in-command and because of the free hand Buhari
gave Idiagbon, people thought Idiagbon was the man in power. I am giving
you this so that Nigerians would begin to watch Buhari. From what I am
telling you now, I am making a statement that the most predictable man
in the world is Buhari. Do you know why?
Why?
If you want to know what Buhari will do, look at the rules guiding the
decisions he takes. Read the rules and, since you know what the rules
guiding those decisions say, you can predict him because Buhari will
never bend the rules. Having said that, I am saying that Buhari will
never interfere with the decisions of people and institutions he has
delegated assignments, for example, INEC. He won’t interfere with the
decision of the INEC. He won’t interfere with the decisions of the
National Assembly in its power to make laws. He won’t. If the
Constitution gives you power to do one or two things, Buhari will never
interfere with the operation of the law that set you up. You can,
therefore, say that he will turn out to be one of the most democratic
leaders Nigeria has ever had because he won’t interfere with the
institutions.
But will that stance not deny him and his party of advantages they could have taken through interference with institutions?
There is division of labour, separation of power. The lawmaking arm of
government refers to the National Assembly and the state assemblies. The
law executing arm is the executive; the president, the governors and
chairmen of local councils and law interpreting arm is the court of the
land from the Supreme Court down to the magistrate court including the
customary court. That is separation of power. The National Assembly
makes law and cannot interpret the law. The judiciary interprets the law
and cannot make or execute the law. The executive executes the laws
made by the lawmaking arm. So, that is division of power and separation
of power. Now the person who obeys that arrangement is a democrat not
the one who wants to control the National Assembly. Why do you want to
control the National Assembly? So, people were criticising Buhari that
he is weak, he ought to have dictated to the National Assembly what
would have happened. He said at the party meeting, let them go and sort
themselves out because they are an arm but that they should stop
individual interests for the collective interest of the nation and also
the supremacy of the party in the area of taking decisions in the
National Assembly and so, the party must be taken into consideration.
And I am now telling you that Buhari’s tenure will be marked by respect
for the institutions and then the respect of not only the facts that I
have cited but also the import of their separation.
How do you compare the gains made in the war against insurgency
in the Northeast with the renewed agitation for Biafra in the
Southeast?
Let me also tell you another thing Nigerians should look up to in trying
to understand Buhari. President Muhammadu Buhari will do anything to
secure Nigeria, which he is ruling. He will never allow any part of the
country to cut off. This is so because the Constitution says Nigeria is a
country indivisible. You can’t divide it, and so Nigeria must remain
one under Buhari. One is advising therefore that in line with the
Constitution, which Buhari will enforce, anybody having a grievance
should settle it within Nigeria. And people have the right to express
their grievances and have them settled. Running or breaking away from
Nigeria is not an option, and it is only in securing Nigeria that there
will be peace.
It is believed that there is mutual distrust between the people of the Southeast and the president?
The fact is that it is misplaced. Buhari does not hate. He is not a
tribalist, and he is not a sectional leader. I am not praising him for
being like this, but the truth of the matter is that he has never said
he is going to attend elders’ forum meeting or any Arewa meeting in the
North. All those meetings that they hold in the North he is not excited
by them. So, anybody who has seen him in a sectional meeting should say
so and then say when.
What of religious meetings?
No. He practices his religion faithfully and allows you to practice your
religion the way you know it. His position is nobody should interfere
with the other.
Are you not worried that Southeast governors with the exception
of Owelle Rochas Okorocha were indifferent to the pro-Biafran marches?
There is no proof that they backed it.
Who says they are not talking? Or must you talk before you are known to
be reacting? For instance, I don’t know why people are so agitated.
People are agitating for what they believe they want to do. We are in a
democracy and free speech is guaranteed by the Constitution. But when
you go beyond exercising your right to speak, then you will know whether
or not there are institutions that will check you.
Which the military has done by giving them warning?
No, the fact is, the military doesn’t have to give anybody warning.
Everybody knows that when you exceed the limit of your rights, someone
in charge will intervene. So, what they are doing as far as I am
concerned is okay as long as they don’t exceed the limit. They know it
is specified by law. If people start breaking people’s vehicles, then
people will be arrested and heavens won’t fall! If people take up arms,
they will be confronted, and heavens won’t fall!
Look at the North East now and imagine the weapons being used on our
military. The insurgents have very sophisticated weapons and people are
dying.
So, those who are agitating for Biafra are reacting to their
perception of injustice. You won’t believe it but these ISIS people are
reacting to their perception of injustice. There is so much trouble in
the world today. People are not mad. They are reacting to their
perception of injustice, and the Holy Books say that God will forgive
everything except injustice. Man’s inhumanity to man must be attended
to. People don’t have conscience any more. That little voice that tells
you, “What you are doing is wrong,” is silent, yet at our level of
maturity spiritually, that voice ought to be booming in our minds, from
our hearts. It says, “Take care of the orphans.” What do we do? We deny
the orphans and starve them to death.
The law of taking has taken over from the law of giving. The law of
taking is the law of Satan whereas the law of giving is the law of God.
Love is the manifestation of the law of giving. Hatred and greed are
manifestations of the law of taking. Satan is behind all these. God is
behind all that is good and God is justice. Justice must come to the
world, otherwise, the world will not have peace.
So, internally, when we have people coming out like this, we attend to
their agitation, peacefully. But when they exceed the level of free
speech, then they will be tackled, and I pray we don’t get there.
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